ERIC ROBERTS: The Hollywood Interview

ERIC ROBERTS: The Hollywood Interview

Sterling Hayden  

(Eric Roberts in "Crash," above.)

Rediscovering Roberts

Eric Roberts never really left, but 2009 audiences are learning (or relearning) the charms of the actor Mickey Rourke has called the best he ever worked with.

By Terry Keefe

(This article is currently appearing in this month's Venice Magazine.)

“Eric Roberts is the [expletive deleted] Man,” proclaimed Mickey Rourke at this past year’s Independent Spirit Awards, while accepting his trophy for Best Male Lead, at the very beginning of a speech which then saw him singling out Roberts, his one-time co-star in 1984’s The Pope of Greenwich Village, as someone who was worthy of a comeback like Rourke had with The Wrestler. From the audience, Roberts himself watched his friend at the podium with what looked to be a combination of embarrassment at being mentioned and some pleasure at the same, finally throwing it back at Rourke by shouting good-naturedly, “Accept your award!” For the viewers who remembered Roberts and Rourke as a young pair of acting dynamos back in Pope, it was a nice burst of nostalgia, as well as a reminder that there was another actor out there who is one great role away from being discussed as the comeback of the year. But the truth of the matter is that Roberts has already been in the middle of a definite return to prominence for a few years now, albeit one that has been quieter than that of Rourke (and after watching some of Mickey’s speeches, how could it not be?) It seemed to begin in 2005 with his casting as the stylish pimp who vied with Brandon Flowers for the affection of a prized courtesan in The Killers' video for their song “Mr. Brightside,” directed by Sophie Muller, who used Roberts’ ruggedly handsome, but slightly dangerous, looks to full advantage. Roberts can do more with a leer than most actors can with a page-long speech, and he appears capable of devouring the baby-faced Flowers throughout. There was also a knowing nod to film fans by the casting of Roberts, sort of similar to the way Fatboy Slim made Christopher Walken the focus of the video for “Weapon of Choice” at the start of the decade. It was saying, in a sense, “These actors are cool. We’re hip by casting them. And you should know why.” Soon, Brett Ratner had cast Roberts in the Mariah Carey videos “It’s Like That,” and “We Belong Together.” More music video spots followed in songs for Ja Rule and Akon. Last year saw Roberts in a leading role on “Heroes,” and this Fall, he is starring in the second season of “Crash,” in a part that is being featured as prominently in promotions as that of costar Dennis Hopper. Roberts plays a billionaire businessman and developer named Seth Blanchard, who is determined to bring a new football stadium to Los Angeles, no matter who he has to bulldoze to do it, until he has a life-changing collapse in a strip mall parking lot. Roberts is also part of the cast of The Expendables, opposite star and director Sylvester Stallone, and a group of actors who are the action hero version of what the cast of It’s a Mad Mad Mad Mad World was for comic actors back in the 1963, in that practically every action star from the past three decades has a role, including Jet Li, Jason Statham, Mickey Rourke, and Dolph Lundgren.

Roberts received his first big break in 1978’s King of the Gypsies, in which he starred opposite Sterling Hayden, Shelley Winters, Judd Hirsch, and Susan Sarandon, earning him a Golden Globe nomination. His work in 1983 for director Bob Fosse in Star 80 as Paul Snider, the real-life con man/pimp who murdered Playmate of the Year Dorothy Stratten, is perhaps his career finest, and a reminder of what Roberts is capable of as an actor. The film was considered a financial bomb when released, and Roberts received another Golden Globe nod, but not the deserved Oscar nomination, for bringing to life all the self-loathing, ambition, and snake-like charm, of this failed Hollywood hustler. Much more public recognition followed for his 1984 starring role in The Pope of Greenwich Village as Paulie, the live-wire best friend of Mickey Rourke’s more level-headed Charlie. And in 1986, Roberts would receive a Best Supporting Actor Academy Award nomination for his work as Buck in the 1985 release of Runaway Train. In terms of both critical and commercial success, Roberts’ career then entered a down period for much of the next decade and a half, although he never stopped working and those years were not without their bright spots, including his starring role in the 1996 feature It’s My Party, which was a Sundance selection and indie circuit success.

These days, Roberts appears happy with what he is doing in terms of work, but also just as much with his family, who he enjoys speaking about. His daughter Emma Roberts has followed him into performing, and is a major rising star, with leads in the series “Unfabulous,” as well as the feature films Nancy Drew and Hotel for Dogs. The next year will see her starring in films with a bevy of big names, including Ed Harris and Jennifer Connelly, amongst quite a few others. His stepson Keaton Simons (with wife Eliza) is a successful musician who has just released his first album on CBS Records and is currently touring (http://www.keatonsimons.com/). His stepdaughter, Morgan Simons, is a prominent chef and caterer in the Los Angeles area, running A Catering Company (http://www.acateringco.com/), which also provides personal chef and meal delivery services. Roberts’ career is managed by his wife Eliza Roberts, who is also a successful casting director and actress.

In addition to their obvious passions for acting and their family, Eric and Eliza are deeply involved in The Natural Child Project (www.naturalchild.org), which Eric describes as “an organization and a philosophy” and which promotes the use of programs of empathy and understanding, rather than violence, to raise children. Says Eliza about The Natural Child, “It’s kind of neat that Eric is playing this philanthropic character on ‘Crash,’ because people often ask what Eric is interested in, in real life, and this encompasses it all.” Eric elaborates, “The bottom line is, if a child is never scared or struck, there would never be war ever. So we have to start it
at the grass roots to kind of spread it through mankind.” Not a bad way to use your career heat.

Hi, Eric. Let’s start by talking about your new role on “Crash.” Executive producer Ira Steven Behr was brought in to sort of retool the series in its second season. How much of his new vision for the show did he share with you when you came on board?

Eric Roberts: He told me where my character was going. He didn’t tell me where I’d end up, but he told me where I was going. And he told me why he wanted me to do the part, and what he was after. He was very clear, very direct, and he’s very actor-friendly.

One of the trademarks of “Crash,” both the series and the original film, is that the characters start in separate storylines and then begin to interact. Did you pay much attention in the early episodes to what the other storylines were, or did you prefer to wait and be surprised when the other plot threads collided with yours?

Oh no, I’ve become a “Crash” junkie [laughs]. It’s like my grandmother would call soap operas “her stories”? The “Crash” scripts are my stories.

Did you watch much of the previous season?

I didn’t, because I was told it was going to be another show. So I left the first season alone.

Ira said something interesting where he compared your character of Seth Blanchard, not so much to the expected real-life counterparts of Richard Branson or Donald Trump, but to Bobby Kennedy. In that Kennedy was someone who was far more hard-edged a personality, until JFK was assassinated, whereafter he seemed to really find his soul and become more a man of the people. Was that comparison something you and Ira spent much time discussing?

Yes, yes, it was. See, the hard thing about playing Seth Blanchard for me, was that this is a stone-cold killer. When you approach him, you only get what he wants you see. And that’s not very much, and it’s not very friendly, and it’s not very warm. But you’re on a TV show, so you have to play him as accessible and you have to understand what’s on their mind. So, to have all of that, and to then go through the epiphany that he goes through, was one of the two or three biggest challenges for me as an actor that I’ve ever had. And I went through severe sleep deprivation the first almost 3-4 weeks of this show. I was doing nights in New Orleans on The Expendables for Sly Stallone, and I was doing days in New Mexico on this. And I was only seeing the scripts for this [show] when I got here. So, it was incredibly hard. But I had this incredible first director here, Andrew Bernstein. Incredible guy. And, it doesn’t get talked about a lot, but the heart of any series is your crew. This crew took this actor who was sleep-deprived and just there for the work, and they led me by the nose and they just took care of me. I haven’t had a crew take care of me like this since 1982 when I worked with Bob Fosse on Star 80. I’m serious. It was miraculous what they did for me, all of them.

What were some of the things the crew did to help?

The camera guy, or the script supervisor, would say, “You’re slurring your speech again.” Because when I got tired, I would slur, and I’d say to everyone, “You’ve got to tell me when I’m slurring my speech” and everyone would let me know [laughs]. They were all my pals, you know?

You’ve known a few moguls over the years, I’d imagine. Was there anyone in particular you based your interpretation of Blanchard on?

There are two individuals that I have based him on the most, but honestly, it’s more on what Ira has told me. Again, what he said about Bobby Kennedy is that he was sort of a dark character and connected to kind of negative people, and then really changed. And if you go on the contention that you can’t get that successful, 28 billion dollars [in the case of this character], without being somewhat unscrupulous…..a real mo-fo, you know?

You’ve wrapped now on The Expendables. Looking at that cast, it’s two generations of stars and action stars. What was the atmosphere like on the set when that group of guys got together?

It’s just a bunch of bored guys [laughs]. Here we are!

It seems like there’s the potential for some serious ego wars with that many stars together.

That didn’t happen at all though. Not a one.

One of the early promotional shots from The Expendables shows you and Steve Austin leaping away from an explosion. That appears to really be the two of you in that stunt.

Yeah, Stone Cold Steve Austin and I met, and then five seconds later, we had to jump through a fire-bomb together [laughs]. Steve and I bonded over that. He’s my new best friend. He’s one of the smartest, funniest guys I’ve ever hung out with. I love him. My wife Eliza and I are his new acting coaches. We can say that officially now.

(Roberts and Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. a fireball in The Expendables, above.)

I know the general story of The Expendables involves a group of mercenaries on an insane mission. What’s your role in the yarn?

I’m not one of the mercenaries. I’m on the other side of the fence. I am a rogue CIA operative, and I basically run a general, who runs a country. That’s what I do. And I decide that I want the whole shebang for myself [laughs]. I am what you might call a bad guy [laughs]. But not in my own head. Bad guys always think they’re good guys.

In the last few years, you became the hip guy to have in a music video. Let’s talk about how it started. Did you actively pursue the music video work or did it sort of just happen?

They came after me, and then the Killers video went number one, and the Mariah Carey video went number one, and the Akon video went number one, and I just became the guy to have in your video [laughs]. There were 14-year old girls saying, “Hi, can I have your autograph?” It was kind of mind-blowing. It changed my life a little bit.
Another way you’ve been introduced to a younger generation of fans is through “Entourage.” Your appearance on the episode where the guys go to you to get mushrooms is, on one hand, cool for your image because you’re sort of presented as the hippest guy in Hollywood. At the same time, you’re also the guy they go to for the drugs. Was there any hesitation in playing yourself on the show in that context? You’re not playing yourself on “Entourage.” Are any of those guys really like that on “Entourage?” [laughs] Not at all. But, about the fourth time I heard them say my name on that show, because I’m a big fan of the show, I called my lawyer because he also handles the writers on “Entourage.” “If they’re going to keep talking about me, have them put me on the damn show, dude!” [laughs] And so he called me back in five minutes, and he said, “They want you on the show but they’ve got a question for you.” I said, “What’s that?” He said, “Will you do mushrooms?” And I said, “I will certainly pretend to!” And he said, “Okay, then they want you on the show next week.” That’s kind of how it happened. Those guys are so much fun to work with! And you know, I’ve always been a fan of Jeremy [Piven], but now I would bend over backwards for the guy. How did you become involved in Dark Knight in the role of the crime boss Salvatore Maroni? Was it offered to you, or was an audition required? I had to go earn that one. That was a weird experience, in that I got the audition, and James Gandolfini wanted the part. So, they were holding auditions, but they probably were going to go with him. I went in and auditioned and I didn’t hear anything for two months. And then I heard, “Hey, you got the part!” I thought it was long gone. It was a shocking and wonderful experience to watch them burn 200 million dollars. I wanted to talk a little bit about your family. Your daughter Emma has obviously followed you into acting. Her first big role was in Blow, starring Johnny Depp. She was very young at the time. Did you give her any acting advice? Not at all [laughs]. Just don’t look in the lens! That was it. (Emma Roberts in Wild Child, above.)Keaton is a musician whose album just came out in June. Did you introduce him to any particular music growing up? I was always a rock and roll nut, and I was his mentor to around the ages of 14 and 15, and then I went by the wayside, and he became his own self. (Keaton Simons, above.)And Morgan, has become a top chef and caterer. You are what you eat, and at 53 years old, people always ask me, “How do you stay looking like that, dude?” [laughs] It’s because of what I eat. Because of Morgan Simons. She can cook for whatever you need in life, and I need to be healthy, fit, and body beautiful without having to work too hard [laughs]. And I eat high protein, pre-cooked meals, that I drop in a boiling pot of water, and I have a gourmet meal. Let’s go way back and talk about your first major feature role, King of the Gypsies in 1978. You were a very young guy suddenly starring opposite the legendary Sterling Hayden. What was that experience like? [laughs] It ended up being one of the best experiences of my life, because it became a relationship. We became very good friends, and we stayed friends right up until his death. Sterling was just a winner, as a human being. He loved you if you were whatever you were. And if you pretended to be whatever you were, he had nothing for you. It was as cut and dry as that, and that’s all there was to it. That’s how you were, or you weren’t his friend. One quick story for you. I had only been working for the better part of three weeks, and he came for his first day, which was a night shoot. And the Second AD came to get me and said, “Mr. Hayden would like to speak to you, Mr. Roberts.” I said, “Cool! I’ll be right there!” So, I go running over to his camper and knock on the door. I hear, [does Sterling Hayden voice] “Come on in!” and I open the door. Whoosh! Big cloud of hashish. [laughs] And I say, “What’s happening, Mr. Hayden?” He says, “Have a seat, son. Close that door behind you. You smoke dope?” I replied, “Not when I work, no sir.” He says, “Well, I do!” [laughs] “What are we shooting tonight?” I said, “Scene 87.” He says, “Yeah, I know the number. What the fuck happens?” I said, “It’s a pivotal scene, blah-blah-blah-blah -” And he says, “How are you at improvisation?” [laughs] I said, “I’m okay -” He said, “Good, because that’s what we’re doing tonight!” [laughs] That was my first Sterling Hayden experience, and I loved him ever since.

(Roberts in his first big film role in King of the Gypsies, above.)

I feel that your performance as Paul Snider in Star 80 was one of the best of the decade. In developing that performance, were you interested in imitating his mannerisms as exactly as you could reconstruct, or was it more about getting a sense of his general essence? Wow, that’s a big question, but no, what I did was, I just discovered what I thought was the core of his kind of energy, by my talking with people who liked, and also disliked, him. Also, through photographs - how he stood, whether his shoulders were up or down, and stuff like that. Small stuff, which I could see through pictures of when he was at the [Playboy] Mansion. I realized that he was wound very tightly, and he was very self-conscious, and he was very…from another era, almost. Once I got that, that was the core of his physicality, I just had to find his morality. And once I had that, I had this very pathetic man, and I popped him out there. One story from Star 80 I wanted to share - while I was working on the film, I got the most personal direction I’ve ever gotten from a director, and that was Bob Fosse. I was doing a scene one day and I was having problems with it. He asked to speak to me in private and he takes me aside and he says, “You’re playing me if I weren’t successful. Do you understand?”

(Roberts as Paul Snider in Star 80, below.)

What a great acting note. Was that typical of Bob Fosse’s directing style? Very specific notes? Real specific, which flowed into passionate, manic lunacy. It would go A-Z, A-Z, A-Z, but always very specific. In developing your character of Paulie in The Pope of Greenwich Village, was the manic nature of the character something that was alluded to in the script, or was it something that you brought to him? It was something that I brought to the guy. You know, that guy was kind of written as a tough, dumb thug. I basically took him off the page and made him a would-be-tough momma’s boy. Because it’s more fun to watch, and also, I’d seen a lot of tough thugs on screen before and I didn’t think I’d be the best one. At the end of the film, Paulie and Charlie walk down the street together, but you know they’re headed for more trouble. Did you and Mickey ever discuss whether they stayed alive? [laughs] Many, many times. You know, we just got the go-ahead for Pope, Part 2. So we have to decide where they walked off to. I would like to open Part 2 in Miami. On the beach. All I know right now is that it’s me and Mickey, and we’re reading a script.

(Roberts and Mickey Rourke in The Pope of Greenwich Village, above.)

You’ve remained friends with Mickey over the years. Neither of you ever went away, but you’re both having career resurgences at the same time. You know, every career does this three or four times, if it lasts. That’s how it goes. Once you get over the first dip, you’re okay. At first, it’s just like, “Wait a minute! Whoa! It’s going down. It’s not supposed to go down!” [laughs] But that’s what happens. Once you learn that, and realize, and you see that all the other actors once went through it, and all the younger ones are going through it now, you’re like, “Oh, okay, this is what we do. It’s all good. Hi, guys!” [laughs] What did you think of Mickey’s speech at the Spirit Awards? I was caught off guard, and I just wanted to crawl under a chair [laughs]. Because I was just so shocked. It was just so sweet, and so endearing, and I’ll never forget it, and I just want to kiss him for it. But it’s just embarrassing [laughs].

Paul Haggis: The Hollywood Interview

Paul Haggis: The Hollywood Interview

television  

Writer/director Paul Haggis confers with actor Don Cheadle on the set of Crash.


PAUL HAGGIS: CRASH COURSE
By
Alex Simon

Editor’s Note: This article originally appeared in the December/January 2005-06 issue of Venice Magazine.

Paul Haggis is the living definition of a writer who has paid his dues. After arriving in Hollywood from his native Canada while still in his 20s to pursue his dream of being a screenwriter, Haggis initially found work at the bottom of the television barrel: writing for Saturday morning kids’ shows like Scooby-Doo. After working his way up the food chain, penning scripts for 70s stalwarts like One Day at a Time, The Love Boat, Diff’rent Strokes and The Facts of Life, Paul Haggis’ talent was recognized and he soon found himself one of TV’s top “prestige” writers, working on upscale titles such as Thirtysomething, and L.A. Law. In 1993, he created the Chuck Norris hit Walker Texas Ranger, which ran for eight seasons, all the while working as a writer-for-hire on other television series of varying quality.
In 2000, at age 47, Haggis had a revelation: that he “didn’t want the epitaph on his tombstone to read: ‘Creator of Walker Texas Ranger.’” A lifelong movie buff who had always dreamed of writing and directing features, Haggis walked from his very lucrative position in the world of television, and decided to write two scripts “on spec” (for no pay): Crash (co-written with Bobby Moresco) and Million Dollar Baby (adapted from two short stories in F.X. Toole’s book Rope Burns: Stories From the Corner). Baby, of course, swept last year’s Academy Awards (although Haggis lost in a very tough race to Alexander Payne and Jim Taylor for Sideways) and Crash, a Picaresque story of racism and life in contemporary L.A., is creating strong Oscar buzz of its own. He most recently finished the screenplay for Eastwood’s latest film: the WW II drama Flags of Our Fathers.
Paul Haggis sat down in his Santa Monica home (one of the shooting locations for Crash: it was Brendan Fraser and Sandra Bullock’s house. “We couldn’t afford to rent a real house,” Haggis says with a smile) to speak with us about his new, very successful career shift.

I’m very jealous that you’ve now gotten to work twice with Clint Eastwood. I got to spend a day on the Million Dollar Baby set last year, and I learned more in that day than I did in four years at USC.
Paul Haggis: Isn’t it amazing to watch him work? I actually finished shooting Crash before they began work on Million Dollar Baby, and so unfortunately I didn’t get to learn those same lessons until afterwards. But the next thing I directed was this TV pilot I recently finished which I also wrote, with Bobby Moresco in 1996. NBC suddenly decided they wanted it, which was great. I took a lot of those lessons I learned from that set: I shot in shorter days, got better performances, and it was an easier, quieter set because of it.

What were those lessons that you took away?
Well, Clint’s been working with the same people for years, and while I haven’t had the opportunity to do that yet, I was able to work with James Muro for the second time, who was my D.P. on Crash. I earned his trust, so he immediately came to mind, but once you have a rapport with someone it’s much easier to have that kind of shorthand. Jimmy’s such an artist with the camera. So I would definitely like to have a “team” in place like Clint does, that I can work with consistently.

One thing I liked about Crash was that I didn’t notice you or the D.P. until the third time I saw it.
Good! Thank you for saying that. It’s funny, I love cranes, and love crane shots, and movement, and there was one great crane shot I had at the end of the film. It started at the skyline, then it came down to Don Cheadle, then it came up and around and back and forth…it was just a breathtakingly beautiful shot. Then I looked at it and said ‘Ah, it’s too fancy.’ So I used the beginning and end of it, but the rest of the time, I stayed on Don’s close-up. My editor--Hughes Winborne, a great editor--and I finished cutting the whole movie, and he turned to me and said “You made a huge mistake: you have to put that shot back in. It’s just too fuckin’ beautiful, man.” I said “Fine.” So we put it back in, and we cut the negative. Now on a low budget film like this one, we had $6.5 million, so we didn’t have anything to cut other than the negative. So when you do that, you destroy frames. When I saw the entire crane shot put back in the film I said ‘I can’t do that. I have to put the close up back in.’ Hughes said “You destroyed the negative! You cut it out!” I said ‘I know,’ so we went back in and digitally created those frames, which you can do now, and we put Don’s close-up back in, because that told the story, and didn’t scream “Look at me, I’m a director!”

You directed television prior to this, but never a feature. Is television as fluid a medium as film for a director?
No, not at all. You have a great freedom in film, especially independent film, to express things the way you want. There are a lot of great directors in television, and I got to work with many of them, and you soak in so much watching them work as writers or directors. In fact, if you look at a lot of the work on television today, it’s fabulous filmmaking. It feels more like you’re watching a film, instead of watching television.

Tell us about how Crash was born.
There were several jumping off points, one being when I was carjacked back in 1991. I was coming home with my then-wife after the opening of Silence of the Lambs. We were film junkies and one film was never enough, so we stopped off at the video store to get something else. We went to the video store and got some obscure Finnish movie we’d never seen. We were coming out to where we parked my first new, expensive car: a white Porsche, and suddenly two men with guns walk up. “We’ll take the car.” I said ‘Absolutely,’ and told Diane to get out of the car. Then they told us to walk towards this dark alley that was behind us. I thought that was a poor choice so I stood in front of my wife, shielding her, and pushed her towards Wilshire Boulevard. We got about 25 feet and I heard “Stop!” And I hear running behind me, and I feel a gun in my back. The guy reached down, and grabbed the video that was in Diane’s hand, turned around, hopped in the car, and they drove off. So the cops come, very quickly. I described the young men, the car and all the information. Then I decide to give them my theory of the crime. I said ‘I think those fellows have been here quite often. I get that feeling. I think they were here looking for that video. They’ve been here several times, and it was never in. They saw us coming out with it, felt it was too much to take, and they took the car to make their getaway.’ (laughs) Of course the cops are just staring at me as if I’m in shock, which of course I am. They were nice enough to drive us home. Then we called a locksmith, because they had our housekeys, and our address, and our locks got changed at 2:00 in the morning. Over the next ten years, I thought about those two kids a lot, and they wouldn’t let me alone. They kept popping up in my head, mostly late at night: who would do that? What did they think of themselves? Did they think of themselves as criminals? Were they best friends? What did they do with the car? 10-12 years later, I woke up in the middle of night again, thinking about them again. I went ‘Fuck!’ So I finally decided to sit down, and write about it. But I decided to use them as my protagonists, rather than my villains, and tell the story from their point of view. I recently had become intrigued by how we affect strangers. You and I, driving down the streets, I yell at you, you flip me the finger, you go right, I go left. What happens to you? Do you go home and do the emotions that the incident has caused you to carry cause you to have a tiff with your wife? Or do you stop two or three blocks later and save someone’s life? But we judge people so quickly, based on so little evidence. So I asked myself those same questions: What did we do after we had the encounter with those two young guys? We went home and changed the locks. Then I asked myself, how would I have felt if that kid had come to change the locks at two in the morning? What if he was Hispanic? What if he had buzzed hair and what looked like gang or prison tattoos. Would I have felt safe? Being a liberal guy, you’re always spouting off on these things, would you have felt safe in that situation? ‘Fuck! I hate that! I hate asking that question!’ So I decided to put Sandra Bullock’s character in that position of having to admit it. But then wait, what happens to that kid who comes to change the locks? So I followed him. And by ten in the morning, I had the whole story completed, with all these characters who’d come to me over the years.

At first you tried to do it as a TV series, right?
Yeah, and the networks weren’t particularly interested. Then I went off to write Million Dollar Baby, after I got the rights from F.X. Toole, and I wrote it on spec, so when I was finished, I was still unemployed. I decided to take a pass on television for a while, called my friend Bobby Moresco and said ‘I’ve got these pages here, and I think it’s a movie. I also know two things: no one’s going to pay us and once it’s done, it’s probably never going to get made.’ He said “Sounds cool.” So we got together and wrote the script in two weeks. It just flew out of us, unlike Million Dollar Baby, which I struggled with for eight months.

Why was it so much harder to adapt Million Dollar Baby?
Well, it was culled from two short stories from Toole’s book, Rope Burns: “Million Dollar Baby,” which was just about the relationship between Maggie (Hilary Swank) and Frankie (Clint Eastwood), there was no Scrap (Morgan Freeman) character, no priest, no deep belief in Catholicism, no estranged daughter and nothing he was haunted by. It was just Frankie and Maggie, and him trying to train her. The other story was called “Frozen Water.” So I had to take those beautiful short stories and somehow surround them with a world and find a way to tell it. I knew I had to have narration, but I usually hate narration, because it’s such an easy tool. I knew I had to come up with some emotional way to justify it. I had a situation when I went through a very long, painful divorce and I was estranged from my youngest daughter for some time. It was horrible. So I took those feelings and experiences I had and put them in the story as something that maybe Frankie couldn’t forgive himself for. I decided on not telling the audience what that was, so that’s when I said “Ah ha!” and I got the hook, and was able to write it. It’s always an emotional reason that you get the story’s hook, never an intellectual one. If there’s not an emotional reason for an element to be in a script, then it doesn’t belong there.